Curse

Trelliz · Nov 29, 2007, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Since capping all the elites i've been looking at a possible build for A) removing conditions from the party and B) giving them all back to the enemy. This idea has probably been done before, but this is my take on an idea:

[skill]Martyr[/skill][skill]Plague Sending[/skill][skill]Purge Conditions[/skill][skill]Plague Touch[/skill][skill]Necrosis[/skill][skill]Hexor's Vigor[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/skill]

Max Curses and Soul Reaping

Thoughts?

Abedeus · Nov 29, 2007, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Wow. Bad. Why purge conditions? Just use Mending Touch, heals you and is quasi-spammable. Hexers Vigor with 0 hexes? Restful Breeze at 3 hp would be better. And you have /Mo and you use a signet to rez? Ever heard of [skill]Restore Life[/skill] or [skill]Rebirth[/skill]?

You would be much better with standard SS build, maybe get Draw Conditions + Mending Touch if you really want to support team. But BRing your monks is also superior...

Wakka · Nov 29, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

.And you have /Mo and you use a signet to rez? Ever heard of [skill]Restore Life[/skill] or [skill]Rebirth[/skill]?

If I ever play /Mo I would sometimes bring a signet, especially in high end PvE where if a player drops you need them up quickly with full health. Hard Res's are only good in worst case scenarios or when your sigs have all been exhausted.

John Panda · Nov 29, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

why.. not.. [skill]Infuse Condition[/skill] [skill]draw conditions[/skill]

and have minions?

Sleeper Service · Nov 29, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

i used to run something similar in SF back in the early days.

purge is good (imo) as its unlinked and you dont always have an enemy to transfer the condition onto nearby.

i would drop hexors vigor and plague touch as you dont cast hexes and you gain nothing from being in mellee range and plague sending is enough in any case.

I would consider taking some of these skills: [skill]Chilblains[/skill], [skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill],[skill]Suffering[/skill],[skill]Ulcerous Lungs[/skill], [skill]Well of Ruin[/skill].

if you H/H a ranger with [skill]Lacerate[/skill], [skill]Toxicity[/skill], [skill]Apply Poison[/skill], a mesmer primary or secondary with [skill]Fragility[/skill] and [skill]Epidemic[/skill] and so on.

What im getting at is that by itself that type of build kinda sucks but in a synergistic team build it can be a lot of fun (everything degens) sadly its when you try to pull of builds like this that you really feel the 3 hero limit start to cramp your style.

Chthon · Nov 29, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

The fundamental problem with condition transfer is that you're spending a lot of skillslots -- and in this case your elite slot -- to get very little benefit over direct condition removal and direct condition infliction.

In fact, while you gain the ability to both remove and cause conditions, you do a worse job of inflicting conditions effectively than if you did it directly. Running a condition transfer build, your enemies control which conditions are available for you to apply and when. Deep wound is only valuable when you can time it as part of a concerted effort to seal a kill; Daze is only valuable when your team is prepared to follow up with the physical pressure to shut down the target; Blind and weaken are only useful when you've got a troublesome physical attacker to worry about; Cracked Armor is only useful if your team is ready to follow up for the kill; And all of the degeneration conditions except disease are useless to you when your necromancer could instead cause AoE max degen with only 2 skillslots (Rotting Flesh + Well of Suffering). Your inability to put the condition you want on whom you want when you want it is a big loss as compared to applying conditions directly.

Also, while you're probably getting very good removal, you're dedicating more skillslots to it than it needs:

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Panda

why.. not.. [skill]Infuse Condition[/skill] [skill]draw conditions[/skill]

and have minions?

Something like:
[skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Draw Conditions[/skill][skill]Infuse COndition[/skill][skill]putrid flesh[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]well of suffering[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]
can remove conditions from your team just as well as a condition transfer build, while causing AoE max degen (which is about the most you could hope to reliably get from transferring random conditions), adding some direct damage, diverting aggro away from party members, triggering SR for other necros on the team, and proccing curses like Mark of Pain and Barbs.
(I'd run the above build on a hero to take advantage of the AI's superior minion-targetting abilities.)

Carinae · Nov 29, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

[skill]Martyr[/skill][skill]Plague Signet[/skill]

Too bad these are mutually exclusive.

Cathode_Reborn · Nov 29, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

[skill]"It's just a flesh wound."[/skill]

Kinda wanted to try that with Angorodon's gaze and Plague Sending/Touch. Good condition removal for the team and deep wound can be used offensivley

Pick Me · Nov 30, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Wouldn't [skill]cautery signet[/skill]+[skill]plague sending[/skill] be better?

I suppose if you are against a heavily condition spreading group it wouldn't help much.

[skill]contagion[/skill]+[skill]draw conditions[/skill]

Drakken Breathes Fire · Dec 01, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

No hexes in your build, how long do you plan on keeping up hexors vigor and NOT using any of your other skills?

Quote:

Hexer's Vigor ends if you cast a non-Hex Skill.

Is this pve or pvp?
I've *NEVER* seen a MASS of contidions in pve.
I'm assuming since you're bringing necrosis it's pve though.

My two cents;
Take some skills to deal damage non conditionally.
You can't rely on just spamming around conditions to deal your damage//support. (especially in pve.)
You might also want a better self heal then hexors vigor.
If you're facing some HEAVY condition opponents +7 regen will NOT be sufficient.
-4 for poison? -7 for fire? -3 for bleeding? Who says you don't get disease+ a degen hex aswell.
You're a monk secondary so there are plenty of self heals available that may serve BETTER than Hexors Vigor and are less situational.
(Meaning they wont expire if you use any of the skills you're bringing.)
Try not to run//use plague touch with martyr. With as many conditions as you're going to be taking onto yourself (Hopefully, otherwise you're going to be sitting on your damage dealers and wanding a lot.) You're not going to want to be in touch range of any attention worthy foe. I'd drop plague touch entirely and go with a second damage dealer.

Pyro maniac · Dec 01, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Ever heard of [skill]Restore Life[/skill] or [skill]Rebirth[/skill]?

yup, never equip them

blue.rellik · Dec 01, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire

No hexes in your build, how long do you plan on keeping up hexors vigor and NOT using any of your other skills?

Is this pve or pvp?
I've *NEVER* seen a MASS of contidions in pve.
I'm assuming since you're bringing necrosis it's pve though.

My two cents;
Take some skills to deal damage non conditionally.
You can't rely on just spamming around conditions to deal your damage//support. (especially in pve.)
You might also want a better self heal then hexors vigor.
If you're facing some HEAVY condition opponents +7 regen will NOT be sufficient.
-4 for poison? -7 for fire? -3 for bleeding? Who says you don't get disease+ a degen hex aswell.
You're a monk secondary so there are plenty of self heals available that may serve BETTER than Hexors Vigor and are less situational.
(Meaning they wont expire if you use any of the skills you're bringing.)
Try not to run//use plague touch with martyr. With as many conditions as you're going to be taking onto yourself (Hopefully, otherwise you're going to be sitting on your damage dealers and wanding a lot.) You're not going to want to be in touch range of any attention worthy foe. I'd drop plague touch entirely and go with a second damage dealer.

Mandragor and Dryders in EotN are very degen heavy

Draginvry · Dec 01, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Wouldn't [skill]cautery signet[/skill]+[skill]plague sending[/skill] be better?

That depends on the number of conditions removed. If it is low, Plague Sending wouldn't really help much. But if you remove a large number of conditions, the burning duration can be quite lengthy.

In all honesty, condition transfer isn't all that usefull in PvE. Just put in [skill]cautery signet[/skill] or [skill]extinguish[/skill], and fill the rest of your bar with hexes. You can now remove conditions from your entire party, and your hexing will be more versatile, and typically more powerfull, than whatever random conditions you would have transferred in the first place. Or better yet, use hexes and curses which CAUSE conditions. Problem solved.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Dec 01, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Mandragor and Dryders in EotN are very degen heavy

That's true, but he still needs a better self heal than Hexers.

Dr Strangelove · Dec 01, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

If you really feel that condition transferring is necessary, [skill]draw conditions[/skill] and [skill]plague sending[/skill] should more than suffice. It requires minimal attribute investment, and two skill slots. Fits very nicely on an OoV hero while running heavy physicals, so I see no reason why it wouldn't work for a human.

Tyla · Dec 01, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

why not just run [skill]Draw Conditions[/skill] on a minion master build?
unless you mean transfering to your enemy
EDIT:forgot infuse condi

Longasc · Dec 04, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

I have experimented with Draw Condition and Martyr and all other kinds of self-poisoning, deep wounding and stuff...

Draw Condition + Plague Sending is probably the most viable in PvE.
But it does not kick. And sacrificing the Elite for plague sending is not useful either. In general, maybe for removing and spreading Blindness in Shards of Orr, who knows.

Suggestion: Plague Signet should inflict 1...3 RANDOM conditions (maybe exclude some uberpowerful ones or lower the chance to get daze or DW?) on yourself. Make it THE combo signet for Plague Sending.

In PvP, I cannot say I have seen people trying Martyr + Plague Sending yet. Necros are not used that much in GvG, I am always happy when I see someone using them outside of HA or AB.

Dr Strangelove · Dec 04, 2007, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Draw Condition + Plague Sending is probably the most viable in PvE.
But it does not kick. And sacrificing the Elite for plague sending is not useful either.

Plauge sending is non-elite. It fits nicely enough on a bar with a ton of space, like an orders necro. It's hardly anything game-breakingly good, though.